Ashland City Council


MINUTES FOR THE REGULAR SESSION OF COUNCIL
November 18, 2008



Council President Paul Wertz called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.   

ROLL CALL
Ward 3:    Ruth Detrow        Present
Ward 4:President: Paul Wertz        Present
At-large:      Stephen Stuart        Present
Ward 1:                 Robert L. Valentine    Present
Ward 2:    Robert M. Valentine    Present

Note: Throughout the minutes, Robert L. Valentine and Robert M. Valentine are designated as to their ward representation, W1 and W2.  

PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

PRESENTATION OF MINUTES
   Work Session 10/29/08
   Regular Session 11/4/08

No Corrections or Comments

Motion to accept the Minutes by Paul Wertz, approved by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Stephen Stuart.
    Ayes: Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2.

LEGISLATION

Ord. 64-08
Item (a) AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING THE ANNEXATION OF CERTAIN TERRITORY
             TO THE CITY OF ASHLAND, OHIO AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY. (Wil
             Research)

Moved by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Ordinance has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
    Ayes: Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2.

Comments:  

Robert L. Valentine W1: We are dealing with WIL Research, correct?

Paul Wertz:  Yes.  

Moved by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the Ordinance be passed on the
first reading.
 Ayes:  Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2.

Moved by Paul Wertz and seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the rules requiring the reading on three separate days be suspended and that the Ordinance be passed on the second and third readings.
    Ayes:  Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2.

Moved by Ruth Detrow and seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the Ordinance be passed.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2.

    Motion carried.


Ord. 65-08
Item (b)  AN ORDINANCE ESTABLISHING THE APPROPRIATE ZONING DISTRICT OF A CERTAIN AREA
               OF THE CITY OF ASHLAND, OHIO (Wil Research).

Moved by Stephen Stuart, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Ordinance has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
Ayes:  Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2.

Comments:

Richard P. Wolfe II:  This is the property that has just been annexed and it has been to the Planning Commission and already had a hearing on it.

Questions or comments?

Moved by Robert L. Valentine W1, seconded by Robert M. Valentine W2 that the Ordinance be passed on the first reading.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the rules requiring the reading on three separate days be suspended and that the Ordinance be passed on the second and third readings.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved by Paul Wertz and seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the Ordinance be passed.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

    Motion carried.

Richard P. Wolfe II:  All this was, was an effort to try to coordinate these two, the annexation and zoning at the same time, so as to all happening together.

Ord. 66-08
Item (c)  AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTIONS 155.01 (A) AND (E) OF THE CODIFIED ORDINANCES OF
               THE CITY OF ASHLAND, OHIO, PROVIDING FOR THE SALARIES OF CERTAIN ELECTED OFFI-
               CIALS OF THE CITY OF ASHLAND; AND REPEALING EXISTING SECTIONS 155.01 (A) AND (E)
               OF SAID CODIFIED ORDINANCES.

Moved by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Stephen Stuart to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Ordinance has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Comments:  
      
Robert L. Valentine W1:   We might want to explain why we are doing it now because we cannot change the salary while the person is in the term.  

Paul Wertz:  This is the Ordinance for Elected Officials that have to be set before the election.  It has to be passed before 2009.  In November of 2009, they will be running for office.  The salary has to be set before that, it is State Code.

Richard P. Wolfe II:  There are three Council positions, I believe and the Mayor’s office in the next municipal election.  And the rule is; any salaries for those terms have to be determined in an even number year prior to the beginning of those terms.  What we are doing is looking ahead to 2010 and beyond in these particular cases.

Questions or comments?

Moved by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Stephen Stuart that the Ordinance be passed on the first reading.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved by Paul Wertz, seconded by Ruth Detrow that the rules requiring the reading on three separate days be suspended and that the Ordinance be passed on the second and third readings.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved by Ruth Detrow and seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the Ordinance be passed.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

    Motion carried.

Ord. 67-08
Item (d)  AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 127.04 OF THE CODIFIED ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF
               ASHLAND, OHIO, RELATIVE TO THE RATES AND CHARGES FOR RESCUE AND AMBULANCE
               TRANSPORTATION SERVICES; AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY.

Moved by Stephen Stuart, seconded by Robert M. Valentine W2 to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Ordinance has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Comments:

Mark Burgess: Medicare/Medicaid established a national fee structure back a number of years ago.  Historically, the city has been well under that as a “give back” to the citizens that we have.  We passed the last Ordinance increasing the allowable ambulance fee in 2002.  I think it was in March.  Since then, we have not had a rate increase.  Due to the rising costs of operations; we feel that an increase is needed. The $50.00 dollars a year still keeps us below, well below, the national average for our area.  They are set geographically and based on metropolitan statistical areas.  But it is a way of increasing our revenue.  The three years, if we took $150.00 dollar raise and did it this year, we would still be under what is allowable by Medicare/Medicaid and the Insurance industry.  We felt that it was, after talking with some of the Council people that doing it incrementally would be better.  So we propose $50.00 dollars a year to at least start increasing our revenue.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  How much does this mean to the people since Medicare/Medicaid taking care of what % of the difference?

Mark Burgess:  80%.

Robert L. Valentine W1:   So that means that it would be a 20% increase to the people?

Mark Burgess:  No.  They will pay 20% of the $50.00 for the increase, $10.00.

Paul Wertz:  What is the Medicare rate right now?

Mark Burgess:  I would have to look it up.  For BLS, there are four categories; BLS 1 & 2, ALS 1& 2 and Special Care Transport.  BLS right now I think is $350.00 for our area, for Ohio.  BLS 2 is $ 375.00.  ALS 1 is up; I don’t have that information with me right now and ALS 2.  Special Care transport is $500.00 and some odd dollars.  

Stephen Stuart:  So if you look at the current rates, we are, for the ALS 1 and ALS 2, our current rates are pretty close to the maximum allowed by.  But where we are under is the BLS.

Mark Burgess:  Currently, right around 39 to 41% of our calls are ALS.  The difference between ALS 1 and ALS 2 are number of invasive techniques used or number of medications.  

Robert L. Valentine W1:  Now if pass this; it will go into effect when?

Mark Burgess:  We would start billing right away.  There is some lag time with Medicare/Medicaid because we have to submit the change in fee and it takes time.  The last time we did it, it took 60 to 90 days just for them to acknowledge that we could start charging the increase.   It is not a fast process.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  So otherwise, it will probably be after the 1st?

Mark Burgess:  Yes.  

Questions or comments?

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Delinquencies.  I looked at that list.  You add all of those up from every year.

Anna Tomasek:  This report actually came from Pat.  

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Those are still outstanding from 2001 on?

Anna Tomasek:  Yes.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  So we have got 2800 outstanding Ambulance bills?  Between 2001 and 2007?

Anna Tomasek:  And we also have a Small Claims process for those who are behind in their bills.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Yes but we had a little trouble with that the last time we filed.  

Richard P. Wolfe II:  There is going to be a certain amount for a variety of reasons that are going to be uncollectible anyway.  You cannot expect 100% collection on those.  There are going to be Estates, insolvencies, bankruptcies, all kinds of reasons.  A certain portion is a cost of doing business.  

Stephen Stuart:  We do not know what are rates, as an example, for ALS 1 whether that rate will be above or below where Medicaid allows by 2010, will we?

Mark Burgess:  No.  We try to keep track of it.  The raises do not come in a systematic time period.  

Stephen Stuart:  Would we be better off having an Ordinance that will allow our fees to float with whatever the rate is for Medicare?

Mark Burgess:  That would be easier.  

Stephen Stuart:  What would be the disadvantage of doing it that way?

Mark Burgess:  I can’t think of one right now, because I am a proponent of doing it that way.

Richard P. Wolfe II: Are these numbers in line with that now?  Are these coinciding with Medicare right now?

Paul Wertz:  They are below Medicare right now.

Stephen Stuart:  It sounds like ALS 1 & 2 are right at it.  

Richard P. Wolfe II:  Historically we have chosen to determine the rates without following some other standard automatically. There is no reason that we would have to continue to do that.   The only reason in the draft of the Ordinance that it says 2010 thereafter, is that the Chief gave me rates for 2008, 2009, 2010 and I didn’t want us to get to 2010 and for whatever reason not take action and then have no rate structure.  So I put in thereafter so that until such time as Council chooses to change it.  But that is Council’s preference. That can certainly be restructured.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  Another question I want to ask.  If like I asked you before, and you said probably Medicare/Medicaid wouldn’t be in until after the first of the year.  Which figure goes into effect after the 1st of the year?

Robert M. Valentine W2:  One rate says 2008.  Is that the one we are charging this year?

Mark Burgess:  We would implement that yet this year and we would have to submit it for this year.  If we change it and submit it after the 1st of the year, then we would submit the 2009 rate, but we would still be behind.  We would submit the 2008 rate as soon as the Ordinance is passed.  So we would use that rate for this year and the lag time for that and then we would catch up.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  Otherwise those before this would be under what figure?

Mark Burgess:  The current.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  Which is the 2008?

Mark Burgess:  Yes.  

Robert L. Valentine W1:  And anything from when we passed this Ordinance on until the end of the year would be billed 250 and then after that there is lag time, would be 300.

Mayor Stewart:  The Chief and I had discussion about this and I asked the Chief to use his knowledge and history with other departments and knowledge of what Medicare and others pay and I asked him to put together a proposal for an Ordinance that could be presented to Council.  I am not an expert in this either.  It is an Ordinance that can work.  It is an Ordinance that if this Council would like to see something changed in it.  If you want to go to tracking or some other charge that is constantly changing and track that.  This Ordinance isn’t absolutely necessary to pass this evening.  It is a document that if passed, it will certainly work and would enhance the revenues of that division.  But if Council would choose to consider other options, it is certainly available too.  Rick has prepared the Ordinance based on what he has to put in an Ordinance to make it appropriate and using Marks’ numbers.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  You don’t have to but what you could do is pass this and then have another one.  

Robert M. Valentine W2:  What I liked about it when we talked to the Chief was I liked going incrementally so we didn’t hammer them all at one time.  I thought that was a good idea.  I still do.                                                                         

Ruth Detrow:  Chief did I understand you correctly that if you had your druthers; you would prefer to just follow the Medicare/Medicaid rates?

Mark Burgess, Fire Chief:  It would be easier because we could bill whatever is allowable by Medicare/Medicaid at that time without having to revisit the Ordinances.  I would still recommend some of the language that was in this Ordinance that allows the Mayor some discretion on bills and some of the set up in the Ordinance.  We would have to keep revisiting that.  We would just go with the rates. That puts us even with everybody else.  It is a little simpler to do that.  On the other hand, we are not maintaining our history like we have been of being just below the current rates so we give a little bit back to the community what we can.  So it is a balance of which would be better for the community.  

Stephen Stuart:  That part is a positive.  Although we don’t know what the rates are going to be in 2010.   We don’t know whether we are giving back or not.

Mark Burgess:  On the other hand you can pass the Ordinance.  It is fairly easy to revisit it and bring it back when we need to.

Ruth Detrow:  Somehow the Ordinance could say, 90% or 95% of.

Mark Burgess:  We can make it say what we want.

Richard P. Wolfe II:   This isn’t exclusively a Medicare/Medicaid issue.  There are a lot of other people who receive these services that are not on Medicare/Medicaid.  There are several different categories to take into consideration.  The Medicare/Medicaid whichever it is, is simply a guideline.  We always get something less than what our rate is for Medicare/Medicaid and so we want to try and get a little more out of that without bringing the rates up so high that the people that are self-paying or other insurances are paying so much more.  So there is a balancing there.  It is whatever you choose to do.  

Stephen Stuart:  Obviously an option is,  to pass this tonight and revisit it some time later.

Mark Burgess:  Or I would be glad to work with you however you see fit.  

Mayor Stewart:  I think all of you have a document that indicates Medicare/Medicaid, Private care or Private cash, private check, Insurance acceptance and would indicate that possibly a significant number of private pay.

Questions or comments?

Moved by Robert L. Valentine W1, seconded by Robert M. Valentine W2 that the Ordinance be passed on the first reading.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the rules requiring the reading on three separate days be suspended and that the Ordinance be passed on the second and third readings.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved by Robert L. Valentine W1 and seconded by Robert M. Valentine W2 that the Ordinance be passed.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Ord.  68-08
Item    (e)   AN ORDINANCE ENACTING SECTION 521.12 OF THE CODIFIED ORDINANCES OF THE CITY
                   OF ASHLAND, OHIO.

Moved by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Stephen Stuart to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Ordinance has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Comments:  

Ruth Detrow:   What is a fourth degree misdemeanor?  What is the penalty?

Richard P. Wolfe II:  That is the least serious as a minor misdemeanor, the next more serious is fourth degree so that the penalties are up to 30 days in jail and /or $250 dollar fine.  

Robert L. Valentine W1:  Well I think for safety reasons, I think the assumption was, I assumed, and you know what that means, but the assumption was that this was required and of course we had asked you to look into it.  I assumed that it was required and it wasn’t required.

Richard P. Wolfe II:  For what?  To have the fence?  Okay.  

Robert L. Valentine W1:  You looked into it, you got some different ideas from different areas and I think what we have here is something, I think, that we need.  As I said before I thought we already had it.  But know we will have it if we pass this Ordinance.  

Questions or comments?

Moved by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1that the Ordinance be passed on the first reading.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the rules requiring the reading on three separate days be suspended and that the Ordinance be passed on the second and third readings.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved by Stephen Stuart and seconded by Robert M. Valentine W2 that the Ordinance be passed.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

    Motion carried

Ord. 69-08
Item    (f)  AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 2 OF ORDINANCE NO. 5-75, RELATIVE TO THE CAPI-
                 TAL IMPROVEMENT FUND THEREBY CREATED.

Moved by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Stephen Stuart to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Ordinance has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Mayor Glen Stewart:  This is an Ordinance that I have recommended for consideration today all interest income that comes into the city goes into a Capital Improvement Fund or the 405 Account and thus can be expended only on capital improvements.  This is where we got into a little bit of a bind in using some of these funds for operational dollars in 2007.  My recommendation is tonight that we allocate ½ of the interest income to the General Fund and the balance the other half remains directed towards the Capital Improvement Fund.  I suggest that this be done for the years of 2009 and 2010 for the very, my rational is that I think the Capital Improvement Fund has been extremely beneficial to our city.  I am not excited about diminishing the income to it and I also recognize some other situations that we are facing in the community that I think short-term this can help whether Council at that point in time would want to extend this or the Mayor at that time would want to recommend that it be extended, it is certainly up to the administration and Council at that time.  In this calendar year, I would ask Anna, but I believe we would be in a range of about $170,000 dollars or $180,000 dollars would be about ½ of the income?  Am I right?

Anna Tomasek:  That is a little high.  It is about $130,000 dollars.

Mayor Glen Stewart:  So that would go into the General Fund and just a general dialogue that we have all had.  I believe there is a consensus that it is going to be a tough year next year.   I am confident that there is going to be a need for some additional income into the General Fund and this would, if it stays as it is today, would offer about another $130,000 dollars.  That is the whys and the wherefores.

Questions or comments?

Ruth Detrow:  I just want to make sure I am clear on this.  I understand that this if for 2009 and 2010 and it is an amendment to an existing Ordinance and after 2010 it will go back to the Ordinance just the way it was which means all monies that go into that will be used for Capital expenditures?

Richard P. Wolfe II: Yes.  Unless you choose to do something else.  The Mayor asked for this for two years, so I drew it up so that it would apply for two years.

Moved by Robert L. Valentine W1, seconded by Ruth Detrow that the Ordinance be passed on the first reading.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved by Paul Wertz, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the rules requiring the reading on three separate days be suspended and that the Ordinance be passed on the second and third readings.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved Ruth Detrow and seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the Ordinance be passed.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

 Motion carried.

Res. 20-08
Item   (a)   A RESOLUTION PETITIONING THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF ASHLAND
                  COUNTY, OHIO FOR A CHANGE OF TOWNSHIP LINES IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM IDENTICAL
                  WITH THE LIMITS OF THE MUNICIPAL CORPORATION; AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY.

Moved by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Ordinance has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Richard P. Wolfe II:  This is something we did a few years ago, actually playing some catch up ball and when we do annexations, at some point it is necessary to approve this kind of legislation so that the boundaries that has changed by the annexation can form so that the properties no longer in the township, it is in the city as far as tax and voting purposes and things of that sort.  There is a kind of an overlapping until this is done; this is sort of a last step in all annexation procedures and if we only had one, we would have done it shortly thereafter but we have had a number of them last year, about six of them and this is bringing us up to date since the last time we did this.  I don’t remember if the Ordinance refers to the last time.  Yes, in Resolution 14-06, we did the very same thing and so this something that would be done periodically and knowing that we had several annexations that were ongoing at one time, I just chose to wait until the last of that grouping was completed, which we did this evening by accepting the Wil annexation.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  Does this have to go through the Planning Commission before it comes to us?

Richard P. Wolfe II:  This is simply a legal requirement that is necessary when boundaries are adjusted by annexations.  

Questions or comments?

Moved by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 that the Resolution be passed on the first reading.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved by Paul Wertz, seconded by Ruth Detrow that the rules requiring the reading on three separate days be suspended and that the Resolution be passed on the second and third readings.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Moved Stephen Stuart and seconded by Robert M. Valentine W21 that the Resolution be passed.
    Ayes:   Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Ward Reports:
At-Large   Stephen Stuart
    (a) No report.

Ward 2:  Bob Valentine
(a)    I just want to ask Jerry, you are going to keep doing leaves as soon as they thaw, aren’t you?

Jerry Mack: Actually we went out this afternoon.  We got salting done and we were picking leaves up this afternoon.   We got a lot of calls.  They think we are done.  We just emphasize to the people; we are going to go until we cannot go anymore. If they are all picked up by then that is great.  Once they get frozen down where we can’t do anything else, we will continue to pick them up.  Last year we were clear into January getting them up.  But we will be coming around.  I think a lot of people don’t understand that, but we will keep going as long as we can.  We will be out there bright and early tomorrow unless it snows.

Ward 1:  Bob Valentine
(a)  He answered what I was going to ask.

Ward 3  Ruth Detrow
(a)    One more question about that; you did say at our last meeting, that garden trash like Hosta leaves, that sort of thing, if those are piled out where the leaves go, they will be picked up?  Because I did, and it is waiting.  

Jerry Mack:  As long as it is not brush.  Brush is a problem.  Or if you have something that is 20’, sometimes that is a problem, but most of your old flowers and things like that, it will pick that stuff right up and it grinds it in.  It doesn’t hurt anything.  We are still taking the yard waste.  We have had a lot of calls on that.  I cannot believe how many we have had.  But we will continue to pick those up on Wednesday.  I would prefer that they called in; it is just kind of bad to send a truck and drive all of the streets in Ashland when there is not that many bags.  But we will pick up all we can if they call in.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  I called in Jerry so you have my address.  You told me to have it out by 7:30 am.

Ward 4: President   Paul Wertz
(a)    I had a call from a person on Union Street, that complained about her neighbors trash and stuff in the back yard so Rick I will just hand that to you.  It is 917 Union Street.  Mattresses and all kinds of stuff in the back yard just lying.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Just for you and the Mayor, remember that house on 9th Street, that lady kept coming in; she sold her house.  I saw the FOR SALE sign today.  


Old Business:    None

New Business:   None.


Mayors Comments:  
(a)    We want to share with Council and the community a little bit about the Walgreen Development and we have asked Mike Huber to come in and share with us along with Jim Cooper and myself, the bottom line is, and these fellows will get into more depth.  Walgreen is preparing to build a store facing Liberty Street between the street and the new Salvation Army, Kroc Center.  Along with that there is some need to re-align the intersection.  That Liberty comes out at an angle to E. Main; Holbrook comes out almost perpendicular to E. Main and there is some, what I think are pretty reasonable negotiations along with some Issue 2 funds, we think there is a wonderful opportunity to re-align that intersection to a basically a cross street instead of an angle street and cycling the light through to move traffic.  It should enhance the safety.  There is a school on that intersection and it should move traffic considerably better. Jim, would you like to add something to that before we ask Mr. Huber to comment?

Jim Cooper:  Just briefly.  We can pretty much work with the right a way that we have.  We currently do not need to take any more right a way.  We will widen the street; we will have sidewalks, curb and street.  The tree lawn will be gone.  It is possible Walgreen’s might want to give us 5 feet so there can be a tree lawn, that still has to be determined by them, but we can go either way.  We just have to make sure we can get the poles back where they are not in our way. So we need easements.  I think it is a fine project.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  What about Best Fasta?  How is it going to effect that establishment?

Jim Cooper:  We are going to take just a small piece of property there at the nose so we can make sure that people can get access across from Holbrook and off of Main in a very safe way.  

Mayor Glen Stewart:  Mike, is there anything you would like to add at this point?

Mike Huber:  One thing I would like to add at this point is to thank the City for all of their involvement.  This has been going on for well over 6 months.  The Mayor and Jim Cooper have met personally with the developers who are out of Chagrin Falls, J & D properties.  I have known them for a couple of years.  We have looked several times for different locations around the city and they finally saw the wisdom of coming down in that particular location.  The Kroc Center would probably be the premier thing that pushed it over the edge.  They thought it would be in their best interest to locate there.  What it is going to involve is taking properties from the Holiday Inc. Motel.  From that point all the way to the entrance of the Kroc Center.  That and probably plus four residential houses.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  So it doesn’t affect the BBC oil change place?

Mike Huber:  It might slightly on the their far west of the edge.  I am talking with Denny about that right now.  Because there may be an opportunity for their being on the back side of this project, the southeast corner for an out.  It hasn’t been determined yet.  One of the things the developers were really interested in was saving re-alignment in that area once we stood out there and saw the traffic congestion.  Holbrook if you try to get back up Liberty, it has been a gooseneck for years.  People run lights and all kinds of crazy things happen down at that intersection.  The City came up with this plan to put the re-alignment.  I tip my hat to everybody involved in this.   The developers were actually purchasing the house that sets behind it to give the maximum parking.  Russell and Kathy Norris at Besta Fasta, we had a meeting the day before we were working through some details.  The developers are actually going to buy the house and give it to the city in exchange for the city taking the point from Besta Fasta pizza.  So it has been a nice give and take.  The dialogue all the way along, everybody has been very cooperative.  

Stephen Stuart:  When might the ground breaking be?

Mike Huber:  Well that is a good question.  Walgreen’s, they actually pushed it back 6 months because of the economics.  There has been some preliminary discussion, and maybe that can be done by the start of school next year.  Even though the transfer of the Holiday Inc. Motel will take place next Monday.  It is closing out its utilities as far as gas and water and electricity.  

Mayor Glen Stewart:  We thought it was appropriate to share with Council and others the general plans.  It is better that you get facts rather than, I guess you might say, rumors!  And once the transfer is in the paper, it will be general knowledge anyway.  The contracts are all in place, as I understand it.  So none of the property owners are going to be surprised.  There has been a lot of dialogue that has gone on Issue 2 money has been approved, but it has not been released.   I don’t think the State will go back at this point on the number one project.  They have approved four projects.  I have nothing else unless there are some questions.

Questions or comments?

Comments of questions from the Audience: Items that are not included on the Agenda.

Motion to go into a Work Session by Paul Wertz, moved by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Ruth Detrow.
    Ayes:  Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2

Work Session started at 7:42 p.m.

PURPOSE:  To discuss Sanitation pick-up 2009.

Jerry Mack, Sanitation/Street:  I guess I want to start out by saying; Sanitation department has done an excellent job.  They do well.  They are fairly efficient in what they do.  But we are going to start experiencing short falls revenue to expense, we already have. There is no doubt.  If we don’t do something, it is going to do nothing but get worse.   This year for instance, we had a $2 million dollar budget and if everything goes the way I am watching right now, we are going to be about $1.7 million, but we are still going to have a short fall with that.   Continuing the way we are doing business now, it is going to be worse.  Next year will be even worse.  We have a little bit of carryover which is going to keep us going.  But we need to do something to try improving the situation.  Whether this is the total solution, probably not.  But it is a start.  I passed the paper out I had last week.  Those are things that I think could help.  We need to talk about it and see how you feel about it.  This will have to be a totally new Ordinance doing all of this. That would be the next step once we decide or look at what the best is for our community.  What we need to do Ordinance wise to set it up and do that.  Going to once a week is not going to save millions of dollars, there is no doubt.  But it can save $130 to $150,000 dollars per year what it looks like right now.  It could be a little bit more depending on maintenance costs and things like that.  It is just like all of us in the city, the street dept, everybody, we have to tighten our belt and do something.  I think staying in our current rate, I don’t think we can do anything but stay at that, even if we go to once a week; we are just going to have to do something to stay within things.  Everybody gets a raise every year, I shouldn’t say everybody gets a raise every year but increases are going to keep bringing my costs up.  It is about a $2 million dollar operation.  Right now we are not bringing that in.  So we have to do something to get back to our structure of what we bring in to try to get more in line with that and like I say, this is not the total solution, but it is a start towards, getting towards that and maybe equipment needs, of course efficiency always has a cost to it.  There are some things, you know, that we can do to maybe make the operation better.  There is a cost to that also.  Whatever questions you have, I brought Dave with me tonight.  He is our Sanitation expert.  If you have a question about sanitation, he can surely answer it if I can’t.  I am learning a lot with his help.  

Paul Wertz:  I have a question on the first part of pick up.  You have in there,  limited to 4 bags per pick up.  We a woman in here about 2-3 months ago said she puts out 9 bags at a time.  She is getting that picked up now for the same price.

Jerry Mack:  One thing, when I say 4 bags per week; how many people are recycling in the city?  If she puts out 9 bags per week; if she took the recycling out of those bags, how many bags would she have?  That is what I am kind of gearing this for a little bit, is to promote recycling.  You know if you got 5 bags out there and 2 of them are full of plastic wash bottles or detergent bottles, that is recycling.  This has no limit to recycling.  It is kind of a little trade off trying to “force”, trying to get people more into recycling towards a green situation, encourage yes.  Now that is not cut in stone but that basically is my thinking on that is trying to promote recycling.  Because there would be no limit on recycling.  Now we might have to buy 2 more recycling trucks and put on more people to recycle, not really.  You know that could really increase our recycling.  That is what it is designed to do, promote recycling.  

Ruth Detrow:  I have a question on the first paragraph, about 9 or 10 lines down.  Hands put curbside containing bag household garbage in accordance with size will be removed and discarded.  Would you tell me what that means?

Jerry Mack:  What that means is, we here, 2-3 years ago, Dave can probably tell me exactly when that was, but we put a limit on the size of can that you could put out.  That was a 33-gallon size can.  So if you set out a 33 gallon can full of loose material, they would pick that up.  If you had a 65-gallon can, no we are not required to pick it up.  But there is also a weight limit involved.  Loose garbage is, loose material is a thing of the past.  Bagged things are the way that you really need to go for our workers, protection and everything else.  

Ruth Detrow:  It says bagged household garbage.  

Jerry Mack:  Bag would be.  You could put out a 200-gallon container if you would like to, if it has bags in it.  No matter what size the container is, if it has a bag in it that is less than 50 lbs, they take it; but if it is a can that is 200 gallon and it is full of loose material, they won’t touch it.  I guess what I was trying, and that may need a little bit of re-wording.  They can put any size can out there with bagged material and they will take the bags out of it.  That may need a little bit of re-wording to make everybody understand.  I was trying to emphasize that can size makes no difference if it is full of bags.

Mayor Glen Stewart:  That in my opinion is contrary to what we told our residents a year ago, whatever we said they must not put out a can larger than 33 gallons and we refused to take any sanitation if it were in a container larger than 33 gallons whether it was bagged or not; because we weren’t pulling the bags out of the can.

Dave:  Then the Mayor, we had so many cans that were over 33 gallons and the former Mayor said, we will pick the cans up if they are bagged.  What they do, if it is over 33 gallon, we will pull the bags out and that is what we have now.  Some people put 94-gallon cans out and they are bending clear over to dig in the cans so perhaps we should have just stuck with the 33-gallon can and that is it.  It is simple.  Right now I do have a problem with the bigger cans; I don’t want to lean down in their sloppy can to pick out their bag.  It is the issues I deal with everyday with the guys.  

Mayor Stewart:  I personally have no problem with sticking with the 33-gallon can.  The fact of the matter is, not that it is a big deal but I went out and replaced my cans to get 33 gallon cans.  

Robert L. Valentine W1:  Jerry on recycling, residents recycling done once a week, but not on the same day as household garbage so otherwise you are going to their place twice a week.  

Jerry Mack:  Basically that is what we are doing.  We have so many problems now that we put recycling out with garbage and I get a call that they didn’t pick my recycling up.  Well it was something that they didn’t, as they are driving by quickly, they didn’t know it was recycling.  If we do it on a different day, we should never have that problem.  

Ruth Detrow:  I am wondering, somewhere in here; I don’t see it right at the moment, but you are supposed to put things out between 5:30 am and 7:30 am which is awful if you are rushing around to go to work.  More than half of the people in town, I am sure,  put things out the night before.  Just putting out a bag is a terrible mistake because dogs and feral cats and coons will tear the bag open.  I wonder if it is possible to put the bag in a container and the lid on it and if you do that, be allowed to put it out the night before.

Jerry Mack: well I don’t have a problem at all with that.  If you can get them to understand, if you can get that across you can put it out 2 weeks ahead if you want to put it in a can.  

No, no, no, no.

Ruth Detrow:   I was thinking more after 6 or 7:00 pm the night before.

Jerry Mack:  That would not be a problem.  The problem is that the animals tear things up if they are not in a container and the crows are the biggest problem.   This is designed to keep things from being out the night before.  And some people will get mixed up on their day and maybe they got a Thursday pick-up and they put it out on Tuesday.  By the time we get there on Thursday it is a pretty good mess.  

Ruth Detrow:  Yes.  And all of us have seen that and we don’t want that in our city.  

Dave:  What we have to keep in mind too, in the last couple of years, we have changed sanitation as far as when we are picking it up, the routes have changed.  You know I would like to get a schedule for the public so they know they have, this is my schedule, this is how it is done and they won’t change it.  

Ruth Detrow:  A lot of people are like I am and they get up and they go dead out to get to work on time and there just isn’t time to go out in the morning.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  The only thing you will have trouble with is, say my day is Monday and I have three holidays.  That isn’t going to work.

Dave:  We did do a three-year rotation. But it seems now our Holidays are not all Mondays anymore. They have changed over the years.

John Chorpening:  I am just wondering, are you going to have a make up day for the Holidays?

Jerry Mack:  Yes, it has Holidays in here.  It will be the next day after the Holiday. I you have a Monday Holiday, we are going to make it a double day and your trash will be picked up on Tuesday.

Mayor Glen Stewart:  However, if you have a Friday Holiday, it will be Monday.

Jerry Mack:  Yes.  It will be Monday.  So we will just have a double day.  We are going to try and design the routes so that Monday and Tuesday are a little bit less than Wednesday Thursday and Friday.  That may sound like we are going to be not doing anything Monday and Tuesday but we are going to put a yard waste in their also on the Mondays and Tuesdays to pick up some of these things in the summer that we do that is a little more and that way it will give us a break on that, where it says in here also that yard waste on Holidays, it will get the next week.  If we have a double day, we are not going to pick yard waste.  There is no way that we can do that.  

Robert L. Valentine W1:  Will recycling hurt you at all?  Because it is possible isn’t like on Monday, if that was a Holiday and that was the day we are supposed to pick it up and then you had them scheduled on Tuesday to pick up recycling.  

Jerry Mack:  I don’t think we are going to get into a lot of problem with that along, as they know it is always the next day.  

Dave:  But it is good to have recycling on the opposite day of trash.  We still have people that do not separate their recycling.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  I was thinking what we do all the time for recycling.  We take a bag to the grocery store and put our newspapers and that is not what you are recommending here.  You are recommending that we tie it.  

Robert M. Valentine W2:  I ran out of trash bags one time and put my trash in a blue bag and they left it lay.

Jerry Mack: They are pretty good.   They watch that closely.  That is just a recommendation.  You know, as long as it is bundled up some how, it really doesn’t make any difference.  What we get into a real bind with this cardboard; somebody will put out 25 cardboard boxes.  If they flatten them then we have that truckload of boxes going down the road.  If we don’t get them secured they are blowing out.  If they would just flatten them, it would make it a lot better and we could get a lot more on our loads that way.  It would be very difficult for us to flatten every box when we came here.  We make a lot of trips to the recycle center.  Trips to the landfill are costly time wise.  Recycle is almost as much with the process that they have.  Not that it is a bad process.  It is just the way that they have to process it now. We do have some wait time.  There is nothing we can do about it.  If you are setting waiting for an hour.  That gets into your time during the day.  That is just the way things are at this point.  There is really no way to change it.  

Robert L. Valentine W1:  Does recycling get any money anymore for cardboard?

Dave:  They do, we don’t.

Jerry Mack:  It is not an extreme fee, but I am sure they are getting some funding out of it.

Mayor Glen Stewart:  Jerry can you share with me what would be an extreme wait and why at the recycling center?

Dave:  Our heavy days are the same as their heavy days and they go down they will go back in a dump their trailer and unload it and they want that pile cleaned up before we can unload. There are times that we have an hour wait down there.

Mayor Glen Stewart:  So is that something that we should be looking at and working with them.  An hour of downtime is unacceptable.  

Dave:  I don’t like that either.  I would say, okay, take another truck and go out and pick up some more.  We do not have the extra truck.

Mayor Glen Stewart:  So when we get and make changes, we would be considering the recycling day on a light day for them?

Dave:  Right.  You know our heavy days on their light days.  That way our waiting time will be a lot less.

Robert L. Valentine W1:  Thursday is their catch up day isn’t it?

Dave:  Yes. Because they don’t have the drive through.

Keith Ballantyne:  You are not going to save any trips to the landfill because you are going to pick up so much garbage at one time.  

Jerry Mack:  It is not going to be a savings on our actual amounts.  It is just we will be able to save in the fact that we will be able to do it with 2 trucks a day rather than 3 on our pick up.  As far as the amount, we are still going to have the tonnage. That is not going to change.

Dave:  I think too in the first paragraph, Jerry had mentioned the 4-bag limit.  If you do the 4-bag limit once a week, you are going to have a savings.  There are some areas in the town, they will easily be picked up by 4 bags and then there are other areas that are like you said, 9 bags, 18 bags a week.  If you go to the bag limit, you will have a savings.  

Mayor Glen Stewart:  We have an obligation to pick the waste up.  Jerry and I have had some dialogue on this.  So this won’t be blindsiding him.  I am not sure of how many of these changes we want to incorporate at the same time that we go to once a week pick up.  However they need to be on the table in front of all of us for consideration.  And maybe we do want to incorporate it.

Paul Wertz:  I think on the bag limit, when we first change; we ought to see what happens for 6 months just to see how it goes and if 4 bags sounds right then we will do 4 bags or 5 bags.  

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Did you ever clean out your basement after it was flooded?

Jerry Mack: Well there are some extreme circumstances where just a phone call, we would probably work with them and the spring clean up issue here is I think would do really well.  It will be identical to what we do now except sanitation will pick it up but we just want a phone call so we know where we are going to expect it. But is going to be identical to what we had except it is going to be year round.  So maybe that person that calls me we do spring clean up April and a little bit of May.  They call me the end of May and say I just got back from Florida can I get my spring clean up picked up?   This takes care of it.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  You mean we aren’t going to have a set time?  

Jerry Mack:  No it would be a year round spring clean up and we would just keep a ledger on the computer and you could check it quick by address to see if somebody is trying to get 2 or 3 of you here.  

Well I don’t want you thinking it will be a year round spring clean up or you will see piles.  I know what you are thinking but that is where you call in Sanitation dept. Street dept say hey I have a pile to pick up.  

Jerry Mack:  We do that year round now.

Paul Wertz:  Is there a prime time?

Jerry Mack:  It wouldn’t be the prime time, but I would say it will probably will be the prime time.  

Mayor Glen Stewart:  Spring clean up will be by appointment.  

Stephen Stuart:   Is our equipment for recycling the right equipment?  Does it work well for you?  

Jerry Mack:  It works okay.  I think there could be an improvement there.  Some of the new equipment that they have now is a packer unit.  Where now we have a double day and we get more than what we can get off at the recycling center.  We might be able to take a truck and run it two days before we dump it.  It might be a situation like that where we have to make, I don’t know, what are we doing four trips a day now?

Dave:  Oh no, easily six trips.

Jerry Mack:  If we did go with a different style truck.  You might be able to have one truck where we are running two now and we will have to continue with two.  We might be able to do that with one truck. Pack it in and then put it back out.  Their larger units are almost like a packer truck.  That would be something moving towards efficiency that would probably help us and the recycling center.  We wouldn’t be in there every 2 hours.  

Mayor Glen Stewart:  And those trucks will segregate?  

Jerry Mack:  Yes. You have compartments and they roll it in and pack it.  Just like trash.  Now it doesn’t make any difference right now if we separate it.  The recycling center.  I couldn’t imagine that wouldn’t improve their situation down there if they have cans, cardboard, newspaper, whatever.  These have bins that do that.  Right now they are hand sorting all this stuff.  When we dump it, there is just a big dump pile on the floor and they have to sort it all out.  

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Where does all of our yard waste go?

Jerry Mack:  It goes to Sullivan, Ohio.  We have Howard’s Nursery.  It is free.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  We don’t pay them to take it right?

Jerry Mack:  All we have is the cost of labor and fuel.  

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Right.  So 2 years ago, we bought the bags.  So we didn’t need the stickers.  Then last year we had to buy the stickers and then we had to buy the bag.  I see it is going up to a buck 50?   

Jerry Mack:  That is just a suggestion. To help.  Like I said, we starting to experience short falls for the last couple of years.   

Mayor Glen Stewart:  On this particular process?  On yard waste, we have a separate route we run for yard waste.  Have you costed that yet?

Jerry Mack:  No.  I have not checked that cost wise to see where it would be at.  But overall, through the whole operation, we are experiencing a short fall.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Well a lot of that is due to fuel also and fuel right now is down.  Call and fill the tanks.  

Jerry Mack:  The only problem is if you look at our budget, fuel is not a very big part of it.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Any budget, wages and benefits is your chunk.

Jerry Mack:  If I could save 50% of the fuel, that would only be $45,000 dollars a year.  

Robert M. Valentine W2:  We’ll take it.

Jerry Mack:  Why yeah, I’ll take $40.00 dollars but in the scheme of things, we have to do more.  We have to try and get and yes I just did buy fuel and it went down 20 cents the day I did it.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  My contention is, you know every meeting I look, we are raising this fee, we are raising this fee, you got to watch what we raise.

Jerry Mack:  One thing nice with this, is overall, they are going to still get their same trash picked up, we are not changing anything.  The $1.50 is just a suggestion.  It is something to help offset costs.  The yard waste program seems to be very well used.  I am learning this myself. I figured the first of November, who is going to put out yard waste bag?  I don’t feel we should have ran the whole city, but we have had; what did you pick up last week?

Dave:  I picked up about 150.  I did that with my pick-up.  I didn’t realize it was going to be that many. So several trips I made.

Jerry Mack:  But I know I probably got 20-30 addresses for tomorrow morning.   Make sure you stop at my place.  I talked to you.

Mayor Glen Stewart:  Are we in the range of over 20,000 bags being sold?

Jerry Mack:  I think we are about 22,000 right now.  That would be 22, 000 stickers.  This is my wish list.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Just like Christmas, you’re not going to get everything you want.

Jerry Mack: One change that I did have on here and just this week.  I did have two people call about taking their pick up at their garage, two elderly people and that is a service that we provide and it is a great service.  I didn’t realize how much we do of that and I asked Dave and I think, I forget what you told me now.  How many people you thought we had that were carryouts.  You know in the winter months it gets; people in the summer can do this.  No problem we will pick it up.  One thing I didn’t know is we do have a 2-bag limit on carryouts.  There again, 2 bags and if you have 4 recycling, that is still okay.  But anybody that has a need for carryout, we are going to try to do it.  This whole situation, we can sit here and talk about how we do it or being more efficient and say well, if we can’t do it, BFI probably could, or somebody.  They will never do the service that we do to this community.  If somebody calls me and tells me, you missed my bag of garbage; it is gone, usually within an hour.  Can you do that with a BFI or a Milliron or whatever?  If we can keep this going; I think it is something that the community has to realize, what a service!  Yard waste, recycling.  BFI, Allied, Milliron, no recycling.  We can offer this to people who are container people.  We can offer recycling to them.  That is something that I want to look at also later on is our container situation, what we have there.  We do have outside carriers doing a lot of that.  This is a service that nobody in the private industry can match.  They can’t do it.  And we are doing it reasonable.  

Mayor Stewart:  I would suggest to Council that the former Director of the Sanitation operation, Curt Young, started working on how and what the savings would be and the possibilities of going to once a week pick-up.  It has been discussed many, many months.  Jerry has put the package together.  My goal is if this Council chooses to do this, I would like to implement it the first of the year.  And I think we can do that.  Do you guys see any reason why we couldn’t?  But what we have to have.  If you choose to and we bring an Ordinance to the table for consideration, we want to be able to answer the questions of what are we going to do on the Holidays?  What are we going to do for bag limits?  I think those things need to be spelled out.  

Paul Wertz:  They should probably be spelled out in the Ordinance.

Mayor Stewart:  That is what I was getting at.  Put it in Ordinance format; there won’t be any question and move forward.  The fact of the matter is, is that the Sanitation Department has had carryover. They are not in trouble today.  They are just headed for trouble.  By not changing the rate structure as far as the monthly rate structure goes; we should be able to survive for another year or two by going to once a week.  That does cut down some cost.  The major cost cut down is not running the trucks around the same route but once a week instead of twice a week.  There may be some labor savings and Jerry has already addressed that; very, very nearly addressed it; I think you have temporary people helping out for the balance of the year; as long as we are under twice a week.  

Jerry Mack:   I told you wrong too Bob; we are one over right now from what a single a week pick up would do.  But remember when I say, okay we can do this with 13 people, twelve full time and a supervisor.  That is 12 people that have to be there every single day with no vacation or sick leave.  So 12 is bare bones so when somebody is sick or somebody is on vacation, I got to figure that out somehow.  We may still need to have a temp now and then to bring up the slack.  Equipment things and stuff will help that but right now there can’t be any equipment in this.  There is no money for it.  But I think we can improve even more as we go along equipment wise.  But, when I say 13, that is bare bones.  You got a guy sick, you are short a person and something has got to give.  Somebody has to make it up. Which in most cases,  Dave jumps in there and helps. Which is good and I will jump in there and help.  

Mayor Stewart:  Keep in mind, if each of those employees only receives two weeks vacation.  Right there is 26 weeks of vacation.  There is half a year.  And there are some longer-term employees that get more than that.  So we are talking in excess of 6 months of the year, you got equivalent of 6 months a year a shortfall of people.  It is just the way the math works out.  

Keith Ballantyne: Are you receptive to any new ideas?

Mayor Stewart:  I would certainly hope so.

Keith Ballantyne:  I spent winters for several years in a town half this size that had this system where one person, the driver in the truck comes along and picks up trash.  They pick it up once a week.  The cost was about the same as it is here for the service.  You have a larger container or half that size, it is on wheels and you wheel it out and there is a spot where they want you to put it and they come by and the truck picks it up as slick as a whistle.  I would like to see us, as a long range plan at least, somebody do a study and see if that is something we might move toward here.

Paul Wertz:  That would mean new equipment.  The equipment we have now would not do that.   But that is a good idea.  

Keith Ballantyne:  It is a great system as far as I can see.

Dave:  It has been looked into.  I have looked at it and I am sure Jerry has also.  

Robert L. Valentine W1:  We talked about it.  They have that down in Myrtle Beach.  They provide the first container and then if that one breaks, you provide the next container.  That is the way they do it.  

Mayor Stewart:  Keith I think we have a relatively progressive management team in place and I would venture to say that before the city buys any additional new equipment; there will be a lot of consideration to say where we need to be over the next 4 or 5 years because it is a transitional process as you point out.  Obviously, what is the sanitation trip costing us today?  

Jerry Mack:  $180,000 to $200,000 dollars.

Mayor Stewart:  And we have how many trucks?

Jerry Mack:  We have six main route trucks right now. Actually a truck with a route and a back up.  

Mayor Stewart:  It is not something that will happen tomorrow, but we have to plan for tomorrow.  And I concur with you.

John Chorpening:  Only thing to eliminate is the Spring Clean up, as we know it as an official scheduled time?

Jerry Mack:  Yes, but it would go to a year round Spring Clean-up to where you would have one free spring clean up a year.  And at that point, you just call us and give us your address; we put it down and hopefully we would be able to pick that up during that week that you call.  

John Chorpening:  Well from what I have noticed of it; that it seems like you know it is after wintertime, it is around Easter time and everybody is getting stuff out ready for spring and summer; it sounds like under your proposal you are probably going to be running from one house to the next house under the same kind of program but they are going to have to call you up to come there even though everyone is doing it at the same time.                    

Jerry Mack:  Well, hopefully we can spread that out a little bit.  It may need to go back to a situation where if that would happen, the whole city could be out.  And then I would probably have a heart attack.  Hopefully we can spread that out and we may have to go to a situation where we say okay, the month of May is this section.  The month of June is this section.  I am hoping that it would spread out enough that we could handle that through the sanitation and do that.  Always in the past, the street department did that. We did the labor and used the Packer truck to do it.  This would put more work on the sanitation department for sure.  We may have to visit that a little bit more, because what you are saying is my worst nightmare.

Mayor Stewart:  And something I must add is that with the street division doing that in the spring.  That is when they should be out working streets.  Starting the street repair.  And Jerry is tied up for about 6 weeks, 4-6 weeks on the spring-clean up and that is a prime time to be starting major and minor repair work to the streets and sidewalks.  We have designed it to get ourselves into a, I would consider, a crunch time of doing things that you can only do during fair weather.  So, it may not work.  But unless we try something different, we are always going to be in the predicament that we are in today.  And I offer that we may I think, and when I hear Council saying, bring us an Ordinance for consideration for once a week.  We will move towards that and we may have to address the spring clean up.  It may not work, but then again, there is a good chance it might.  We will not leave anybody that has the need for spring clean up.  It will get picked up somehow.  You go along with that Jerry?

Jerry Mack:  Yes.

Mayor Stewart:  And I want Jerry to explain one more thing.  There is continual reference to a cycled Hopper.

Dave:  Our Hoppers range from about 3.2 cu yd and our new truck is 3.7.  So you are almost looking at a 4 cu yd Hopper.  So you are getting a pretty good size sweep of trash.  We charge $8.00 per hauling that.  

Mayor Stewart:  You get a free one.

Jerry Mack: Yes.  It would be one basically total free one.  We say 3 cu yd, which is a pick up truck full loaded to the roof.  That was always what we did our guideline by.  Then every hopper that we cycle after that is $8.00.  And that is the same thing we do on regular pick-ups now. Only every cycled hopper is 8.  The only time you get into a problem, you can’t get as many couches into the hopper as what the hopper would hold.  So usually it takes 2 swipes to get a couch in.  Some of these couches are as big as a bus anymore and you kind of have to pull it to get it through.  That is not quite a hopper.  If you took bags of material and put it in that hopper before you cycled it, you would have 3-4 cubic yards of material in that hopper when you cycled it.  That is a lot of material.  

Robert M. Valentine W2:  I put out 3-4 cubic yards every spring and by the time you guys get there, there is a half a yard.  They come and get all of the scrap steel and anything with a motor.  

Jerry Mack: I don’t know if that has been a benefit for us because it sure makes a mess when they scatter it out over 3 tree lawns.

Comments or questions?

Dave:  Finally, the carryouts that Jerry was talking about.  We don’t have an Ordinance for that.  The Ordinance that we do have is everybody is allowed to have a 20 gallon can behind their house. That is from 1969.   If we had some kind of new Ordinance for carryouts, for the Senior citizens or handicap, a 2 bag limit.  I think we would be better off.  I am making this rule saying we are at a 2-bag limit, when it is not an Ordinance.  

Mayor Stewart:  I think you and I need to sit down in the next few days and get the bullet points that we want in this Ordinance.  For the Senior citizens or the handicapped carryout situation, get that identified and we will bring it back and hopefully we can get it ready so it will go out in your pre-agendas for the 1st meeting in December.  

Jerry Mack:  Think about what you would like to see in this Ordinance and let the Mayor know so we can guide it towards everything you would like.  

Paul Wertz:  I think there should be a bag limit.

Jerry Mack:  The thing that I have trouble with is; I have a house on Sandusky Street that I go by every single pick up day and there are 25 bags setting out there.   We cannot afford to do this anymore.   That’s why if there is a bag limit.  But if we don’t have a bag limit, I cannot do anything about it.   All I can do is throw my hands in the air and say throw them out there.  

Mayor Stewart:  We can address that and Rick should be good at writing some Lawyer language that would say; the residence, household trash.  It is not that difficult if you want to go through the trash, you will find out that that resident will have mail addresses from all over the county probably.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  When you get something like that, I image you can talk to those people.

Jerry Mack:  I can’t do anything about it; we have nothing that addresses it.  

Mayor Stewart:  We will try and work some of Rick’s language into it that will allow us to address excessive use of trash.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Now on occasion, if you had a flood and you had to add to it, you just call them and let them know you have extra trash this time and explain the reasons.  

Jerry Mack:  Just like spring clean up, I say 3 cu yd.  We were very generous.  We didn’t hit people.  Okay it is 3 cu yd and you get the rest.  We never did that.  We have always been very generous with what we did.  And I am sure the sanitation department will do the same.  Because we do want to service the community.  Although every bag that you put in costs us. There is no doubt.  On the second page, it had some Ordinance should include type items.  Those are some things that I think should be included in the Ordinance.  I do have one other thing that I will talk over with the Mayor that you don’t have.  I will run that by the Mayor and we will go from there on that.  

Dave:  Another thing what I think Jerry was getting at when he said bags only.  Because what I have the biggest problem with when people have cans and they dump the cans and the wind is blowing 25-35 mph gusts; the cans are out in the street.  I end up replacing their can.  I go around all the time picking cans up and putting them in the tree lawn but there is no guarantee it is going to stay there. I think that is why we want to go with the bag.

Mayor Stewart:  I have a problem with that.  A year ago we told people to go out and buy 33-gallon cans.

Robert M. Valentine W2:  Like I say though, I can drive the night before down into my Ward, there are 25 bags out.  

Mayor Stewart:  We will get through this thing and I appreciate what you are saying Dave.  There are cans that are not being taken in and end up in the road.  I stop and put cans on the tree lawn.  Other people just as soon hit it.  

Motion to go out of Work session back into Regular Session by Paul Wertz, moved by Stephen Stuart, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1.
     Ayes:  Ruth Detrow, Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2


Move to adjourn Regular Session.  All Ayes.


Adjournment at 8:28 p.m.

                                                         

                                        Submitted by
                                        Valarie Bishoff
                                        Clerk of Council