RS12-2-2008

Ashland City Council

MINUTES FOR THE REGULAR SESSION OF COUNCIL
Tuesday, December 2, 2008

Council President Paul Wertz called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.

ROLL CALL
Ward 4/President: Paul Wertz       Present
At-large:     Stephen Stuart       Present
Ward 1:   Robert L. Valentine   Present
Ward 2:   Robert M. Valentine   Present
Ward 3:   Ruth Detrow       Present

Note: Throughout the minutes, Robert L. Valentine and Robert M. Valentine are designated as to their ward representation, W1 and W2.

PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

PRESENTATION OF MINUTES
   Regular Session: 11/18/08

No Corrections.

Motion to accept the Minutes by Paul Wertz, approved by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Robert M. Valentine W2.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

LEGISLATION
   Ordinances

Ord.   70-08
Item (a) AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE MAYOR, DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
              TO ENTER INTO A MODIFICATION OF THE CONTRACT AUTHORIZED BY ORDINANCE NO. 18-
               07; AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY.

Moved for non-reading in full by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Stephen Stuart to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Ordinance has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W 1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Jim Cooper: This is at the Water Treatment Plant, taking care of the sludge from the lime. It is a $100,000 dollar project. This finishes the job. It is a modification over $1,000.00 dollars, so we need your blessing. Not because we tried to circumvent the system, but it depends on specific gravities. More dry tonnage. Also in the process of doing this, we don’t want to leave a farmer’s field half done. So the combination to this.

Robert L. Valentine W1: How much did you say it was?

Jim Cooper: $1691.00 dollars.

Mike Hunter: I would like to add something too. When we do the analysis, it determines what that charge will be. We are reaching the end of the cleaning process. It was just that cross over that we were with sulfur action heavier than we were estimating.

Questions or comments?

Moved by Robert L. Valentine and seconded by Ruth Detrow that the Ordinance be passed on the fist reading to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Ordinance has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
    Ayes:   Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Move to suspend the rules, 3 separate meetings, 3 separate nights, by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Move the Ordinance be passed by Paul Wertz, seconded by Stephen Stuart.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz. Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Ord. 71-08
Item (b) AN ORDINANCE PROVIDING FOR TEMPORARY APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE CITY OF ASH-
              LAND, OHIO, TO MEET THE ORDINARY EXPENSES OF SAID CITY, UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF
              OHIO REVISED CODE SECTION 5705.38; AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY.

Moved for non-reading in full by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Stephen Stuart, to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Ordinance has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W 1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Anna Tomasek: This is the temporary appropriations for the 2009 Fiscal Year and this is to allow the city to meet ordinary expenses until the actual annual appropriation Ordinances passed by City Council which can be no later than April 1 of 2009.

Questions or Comments? None.

Moved to pass the Ordinance on the first reading by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Move to suspend the rules, 3 separate meetings, 3 separate nights, by Paul Wertz, seconded by Ruth Detrow.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Move the Ordinance be passed by Stephen Stuart, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

   Resolutions:

Res. No. 21-08
Item (a) A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THAT THE CITY OF ASHLAND, OHIO MAKE
                APPLICATION FOR A GRANT FROM THE CLEAN OHIO CONSERVATION FUND; AND DECLAR-
                ING AN EMERGENCY.

Moved for non-reading in full by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1 to invoke Section 113.01 of the Codified Ordinances as the distribution of this Resolution has satisfied the requirements of said Section and that a further reading be dispensed with at this time.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W 1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Anna Tomasek:   This is a Grant Resolution for Clean Ohio Fund. I have a map that outlines the property and a Grant description.   The City of Ashland will be applying to the Clean Ohio Fund for the amount of $289,217. 25 dollars and the property seller has agreed to contribute to the City of Ashland $96,405.75 dollars. The total project of this Grant would be $385,623.00 dollars and the contribution is 75% coming from the State and 25% coming from the seller. The Grant application deadline is December 5, 2008 to district 16.

Mayor Glen Stewart: Are you guys familiar with where this is? Out off of Sandusky; between Sandusky and the Golf Course fence. At one time we were looking at a very large chunk of that land. We did not get the Grant that would allow us to purchase the whole entity. There is a smaller piece left that we could, or we hope to get through this Grant process. It would not be a cost to the city directly.

Robert L. Valentine W1: This is by Edison School?

Ruth Detrow: No the Myers property.

Paul Wertz: the 17th and 18th.

Anna Tomasek: The amount of acreage is 18.363.

Stephen Stuart: And what does the Grant do then?

Anna Tomasek: It allows the City of Ashland to use this property for a Nature Preserve. It is going to be called the Brookside Nature Walk.

Robert L. Valentine W1: If it does that, does it mean it has to be used just for that?

Mayor Stewart: Yes. We could not develop it into a building site or things of that nature. It has to remain in its reasonably natural state. I don’t know how extensively it can be developed. I don’t know that? Do you have any ideas on that?

Stephen Stuart: How was the price determined?

Anna Tomasek: It is determined by a State appraisal, by a Certified State Appraisal.

Robert L. Valentine W1: With the economy the way it is, I think a couple of years ago they were talking about extending it. I guess the question whether that would ever happen in the future, I don’t know. My question being, once you do this, does that limit it to just to be used for that?

Paul Wertz: Anything on conservation nature things, you have to leave it in the same state.

Anna Tomasek There will be certain Deed restrictions set by the State of Ohio.

Ruth Detrow: Does anyone know what those are?

Mayor Stewart: You cannot develop it commercially.

Paul Wertz: Basically it is going to be the same thing as Sandusky Hollow.

Anna Tomasek: There is a lot of Deed Restrictions; I don’t them off of the top of my head. We can provide that.

Robert L. Valentine W1: So down the road, if you want to add on to the Golf Course, you could not use that land, is that correct?

Mayor Stewart: I don’t know that answer Bob.

Ruth Detrow: Is this contiguous to the Golf Course?

Paul Wertz: Yes.

Mayor Stewart: It is all Myers property.

Robert M. Valentine W2: Does it have the houses on it?

Paul Wertz: Not the house, just the woods.

Mayor Stewart: Judge Myers, the house has been sold. That parcel and some of the ground has been sold. This is the remaining barren land.

Robert L. Valentine W1: Doesn’t DeSanto own land there?

Paul Wertz: He bought the land on either side.

Robert M. Valentine W2: To the East. Didn’t Ev Devaul buy some of that land too?

Robert L. Valentine W1: Well I retract what I am saying because I relocated this in my mind now. It is a different piece of property than what I was thinking about.

Questions or Comments? None.

Move the Resolution be passed on the 1st reading by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1.
     Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Move to suspend the rules, 3 separate meetings, 3 separate days by Paul Wertz, seconded by Ruth Detrow.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Move the Resolution be passed by Ruth Detrow, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.
   Abstain: Stephen Stuart

Mayor Glen Stewart: I want to offer an apology. Tim Clingan has been intimately involved with this for a long time. Tim is ill tonight. I didn’t get versed properly. I appreciate your support.

Robert L. Valentine W1: Well most of that is on the hill.

Paul Wertz: Yes.

Robert L. Valentine W1:   I was thinking about beyond the Water Tank there at first. That would have been Baney Road though.

Mayor Stewart: We might be able to put a gate in there so you can get your Golf Balls.

John Chorpening: Are you talking about that ravine and the property on both sides of it?

Mayor Stewart: I think part of it is back closer to town.

Paul Wertz:   It runs to the Golf Course entrance all the way down to the Myers woods.

Ruth Detrow: It is a little bit past where you go into Ridge Road, across Sandusky from it. There is a section out here that is next to the street and it goes from a little ways past Ridge Road, about halfway past to about halfway past Mowry.

Robert L. Valentine W1: That is such a nice piece of property.

Mayor Stewart: Then it spreads out behind the property and goes over to the Golf Course.

WARD REPORTS

At- Large:     Stephen Stuart
No Report.

Ward 2:     Robert M. Valentine
(a)   One thing I am going to defer to Ruth Detrow. I got a call from a guy about a Water Bill. He wanted some things checked on and I will let her do that.
(b)   Mr. Cooper, the building down at 9th and Clark. I have been getting inquiries.

Jim Cooper, Director of Engineering: We will take the next step and see what we can do.

Robert M. Valentine W2: It is getting worse. More of it is falling down.

Jim Cooper: I will get involved with that with Building and Zoning to start with.

Ward 1:   Robert L. Valentine
(a)   I got a call from the same person that Bob did and Ruth did too and maybe Paul did and so did Steve. It is kind of repeating what Bob said. Ruth did some research on this. I will maybe make some comments maybe after your report.

Ward 3:      Ruth Detrow
(a)   What we have been talking about is the fact that we have had calls from a gentleman who is a Landlord. His tenant and actually it turns out there were a couple of tenants. His tenant that he was concerned about had overdue water bills. He let them pile up to the point of $320.00 dollars and then he moved to another place in town. This Landlord was highly incensed about the fact that the City does not follow the tenant when a water bill is overdue. The City goes back and says to the Landlord “This is your property, this is your moneymaker and you are ultimately responsible for the bills”. I found out from our water department and if Mr. Hunter wants to jump in at any time to make corrections, etc., that is fine, I appreciate it. But our Water department does a couple of things for Landlords that they don’t have to do. This is important I think. First of all, when a tenant owes money on his bill, as soon as that becomes apparent, as soon as it reaches overdo, then the city writes a letter to the Landlord and says “ Your tenant is overdue”. And at that point, if the Landlord wants to; and keep in mind, this is his business, his house and at that point, if the Landlord wants to, he can say, “Shut the water off”. And the city will do it. If it is a multiple unit house, then the Landlord will have to go with them and point out which meter belongs to which tenant so that they get the right one and don’t shut off a whole house with maybe four resident units. So they send a letter as soon as it is possible and notify the Landlord that his tenant is in arrears. And then they send a second letter. I have copies of one of the letters and they are about a month apart. I don’t know if that is always the case. Okay, it is typically the case and they sent a second one saying, “Your tenant still isn’t paying up”. You Mr. Landlord still owes a water bill and they tell him exactly how much. Now these two letters are things that our water department generates to help the landlord run his business effectively. I think this is excellent. I did not know this was happening. The gentleman who called, and I think he may be here at the next meeting.   The gentleman who called wants the Ordinance changed to say that if I am your renter and I let the water bill go for 3 months and I move to the other side of town, the water bill would follow me. It won’t go to the Landlord. That is basically the change he wants to see.

Mike Hunter: I can only say that that change cannot occur. The Landlord, the property owner will always be responsible for the utilities that are generated by our Ordinance and by Ohio State Law as well. The fact of the matter is he is, along with the tenant, it is his option to have the tenant pay that bill and that is set up between his tenant and himself and we accommodate that request. We bill the tenant, if the tenant does not pay and the bill becomes delinquent, then we notify the tenant as well as the Landlord. So we do everything that we can as a city to make both parties aware that there is delinquency and shut off is imminent. In this particular case the tenant was paying just enough to keep it from going into the arrearage and it was the final bill that actually sent it over into the amount it is now. The tenant then vacated and did not notify, as I understand it. It is unfortunate, but he is the Landlord and is the owner of the property and by our Ordinance, he is also legally responsible for that bill.

Ruth Detrow: My understanding is that many others, most other cities do it the same way and I didn’t realize it was State law. So thank you.

Mike Hunter: When a bill is generated, when utility costs are incurred, if we so choose, and it remains unpaid, we can actually have that committed to a real tax bill. The State law allows us to do that. That is because it is the owner’s responsibility. The bill stays with him. That is how it has always been done as far as I know in the State of Ohio.

Robert M. Valentine W2: I have a question for Mr. Hunter. The only problem I have is that you can be on this side of town and skip out on a big bill and move in on the other side of town and there is nothing to tell the water department or is there?

Michael Hunter: Well the fact of the matter is a tenant is not the owner of the property. It is the property owners responsibility to manage his property and in this particular case, there are going to be times when there is going to be an incurrence of debt, as we have here, but the tenants, because the bill remains in the name of the Landlord, because he is the owner of the property, if he wants to rent to that tenant; we cant say you cannot rent to that tenant because he left owing it on a bill. Because again, technically, that bill is the responsibility of the Landlord.

Ruth Detrow: And actually I suppose it isn’t any of our business, when it comes right down to it.

Michael Hunter: Even if he is aware that John Doe skipped out on a particular rental property, because he was a renter and left owing x amount of dollars and we know he goes into another rental property; it is not John Does bill, it is the property owners bill.

Robert M. Valentine W2: Plus he has other avenues he can take the guy to small claims court, right? I mean he has other avenues.

Michael Hunter: Yes, sir he does.

Robert L. Valentine W1: Just to interject, I didn’t realize as I said before that you communicated; the only one, after I talked to him, he wasn’t sure which Ward he was in. He is in the Ward that I represent. And when I found out he talked to Bob then after that, I talked to Bob too and he said to me yesterday; something to the effect that he would like to come, and I said well you better wait a day because I don’t like to introduce something to Council that no one is aware of. I didn’t realize you all knew about it. I called Rick and Rick and I talked about it and then I called the Water Department and Shelly I talked to her down there too. This is the first time that I have been on Council that something like this ever came up.

Mike Hunter: It just so happens sir, this happened twice this very day with two different Landlords for the very same reason. That is why when Councilwoman Detrow called me to begin with, I thought she was talking about someone else because I just had a conversation with a gentleman on another part of town. Basically it is the same situation.

Nevin Bowers, 1466 Smith Road: I don’t object to anything about the Landlord being responsible, I totally understand and agree, however with the tenant vacating and the Landlord has to pay the bill; but moves to another address in the corporate limits of the city, and wants water service. I don’t feel it should be granted until that bill is paid.

Robert L. Valentine W1: I know you always want to rectify rights but we are the free enterprise system so if you know what the circumstances and situations are, that is capitalism. When you do these things and something like this happens, that is part of the system.

Ruth Detrow: I spoke to the Mayor, very, very briefly about this situation today and he suggested and so I did that I made absolutely sure that the girl who is responsible Shelly in the Water Department is extremely careful to be even handed and send letters to everybody and make no exceptions and so on. So I was in the water department billing office today and I asked her again a second time if that was true and she said yes absolutely that is the case.

Nevin Bowers: I get the letters on occasion.

Ruth Detrow: The gentleman who called did not mention ever hearing from us at all. It was just a big surprise to him. Do you think Mr. Bowers that this should be a city responsibility or is it the Landowners responsibility to see that that happens. I know there is an organization of Landlords. It seems as though one more thing on us that we could be criticized for sticking our noses in where it shouldn’t be.

Mike Hunter: If I could add one more thing. It goes beyond that. If we were talking about doing what this gentleman is suggesting, you are basically telling a Landlord, a private property owner in this city, he cannot rent to an individual. And you are depriving that landlord of that viable tenant possibility and I think that would create a huge problem. Not just the tenant again, but it is the landlord. He is the property owner. If he wants to rent to John Doe, that should be his choice. We cannot go after the tenant. That is why the bill stays with the property owner.

Valarie Bishoff, Clerk: I had a phone call from Fred Pryor, a tenant. It was just the opposite of that. The landlord is refusing to fix his furnace and he and his wife does not have any heat. What options he might have?

Paul Wertz: Probably Human Services would be the best place for him to go.

Ward 4/ President:       Paul Wertz
(a)   Two complaints, one was not plowing the alleys and I gave that to Jerry Mack. One of those things you prioritize on.
(b)   Neighbors complained about not having a housing maintenance code and Rick I do not know how to answer the people. The house has been vacant for about 3 years but a new roof was started 2 years ago and then now nothing is being done. The house and property is going downhill. Any thing I should tell these people?

Richard P. Wolfe II: We have dealt with that specific problem and that person to the extent you have described. There is not a whole lot left to do. Unless it is creating a hazard to somebody else.

Old Business:

Mayor Stewart: I think it would be appropriate under Old Business for Jerry to discuss Sanitation pick-up. I hope that most of you have received some additional information from Jerry. I would like if we can to basically try and hold any discussions to this Old Business to the Residential curbside and recycling. Not that we do not need to address the Yard Waste, Spring Clean up and other areas, but If it is possible and if this Council chooses to change the residential pick-up process; I would like to initiate it the first of the year. I think if we could agree on what changes we want to incorporate; Jerry you have a proposed pick-up schedule?

Jerry Mack: We are working on the schedule now. I have a map, it is right behind you. We have laid out the areas that we are going to be doing.

Robert L. Valentine W1: Jerry the basic thing that changed from what you have given us before was Spring Clean up, right?

Jerry Mack: Spring Clean Up wouldn’t work the way we had laid it out, it just wouldn’t work. Personnel wise and things like that; there was a little bit of change with the Yard Waste pick-up. We have to be careful with what all we take on and how much because we do not have the personnel to do it. So we had to break that too. Instead of doing the whole city, that would have been done in half of the city per week. We just don’t have the personnel. We used to two trucks to do the Yard Waste last year. I cannot do that with the personnel that we have now. Curbside pretty much stayed the same except I changed the bag limit. I am just convinced and Dave has talked with me tremendously about this that we need a bag limit. One for recycling in talking with Dan Scot we need to get this recycling going as much as we can. I can’t imagine that a household could create six bags of household garbage if they didn’t have their recycling out.

Paul Wertz: What about at the Holidays when you have 15-20 people at the house.

Jerry Mack: Holidays may be a difference but six bags is a lot of material. Everything that is recyclable. If you get that out of your household garbage, there isn’t much left. You can put a lot of household garbage into a 33-gallon bag. That is a lot. When you go to homes and there are 25 bags setting there; it is just difficult to say that time after time, we do 25 bag pick-ups there. Sure I will do it but wherever it is coming from, maybe they should pay an additional cost to get it done. I am not opposed. I will pick up everything in the city but why should you put out two and your neighbor constantly puts out 25 and you pay the same rate as he does.

Mayor Stewart: How many 25-bag customers are there Jerry? Do we need to address the problem specifically? Or do we need to address an Ordinance that somewhat penalizes everybody. Jerry and I have not had a lot of discussion on this. I recognize Thanksgiving with my pick-up day. So it went until Monday. I came close to the six-bag limit. Very close. There is a Holiday in there and we had 32 people there for dessert. Only 30 for dinner. The point is that you generate a lot of garbage. That is only on a Holiday. I don’t generate near that much normally. What is the right number? I have asked Jerry to put this together and he has done exactly what I have asked for and I appreciate that.

Jerry Mack: My information, you know, I am new, I am learning. A lot of my information comes from Dave and he says we have to do something. We can’t continue the way we are with the amounts that are out there. To say how many there is, I don’t know. I know there are places that I go by that I see it pretty constantly. It just seems like an awful lot of material.

Robert L. Valentine W1: I am curious; today did you people get done in the eight hours?

Jerry Mack: No.

Robert L. Valentine W1: Well that would be a good indication what is going to happen in the future then.

Jerry Mack: Why is that?

Robert L. Valentine W1:   Well if you had a holiday and then they can’t wait.

Robert M. Valentine W2: Well the Holiday and you guys didn’t work Friday either.

Jerry Mack: Right. This is a double day. We had three double days this week. Yesterday, today and tomorrow. They are all double days.

Robert L. Valentine W1: Because they were much later than normal coming down.

Jerry Mack: Yesterday the one truck hauled 40 ton. It is heavy, no doubt. Plus, you are right. We had a Holiday in there. A double day, a Holiday and that is going to happen in the future. Holidays do create more waste. No doubt.

Ruth Detrow: I am just thinking out loud. Do double days always, if you allowed double the amount of waste on double days, would that sort of take care of most of the holidays? You have a double day because there is a holiday. So if whenever you have a double day; if you allowed twice as many bags, would that take care of it? Or is there some flaw in that?

Robert L. Valentine W1: Well how many double days would we have? Would it just be at Thanksgiving and Christmas?

Paul Wertz: Ten Holidays.

Jerry Mack: This one was especially bad because of Thursday, Friday and Saturday off. This is the only Holiday of the year where Sanitation actually gets a break. It is one day off. Double day, keep on truckin. They actually got some time off this week and that is good. This is great for moral for them to see 3 days off. We hashed around picking up Saturday and we just decided, you know what, lets try and give them a little bit of a break.

Mayor Stewart: Jerry may I ask? A cycled Hopper, how many bags would go into a cycled hopper?

Jerry Mack: A hopper holds 3-4 cubic yards so you could probably put, I would say 15 bags in a hopper before you would have to cycle it.

Mayor Stewart: You know where I am coming from don’t you? Do we want to charge 45 bucks for 15 bags and we want to charge 8 dollars for the cycled hopper.

Robert M. Valentine W2: I will take the hopper.

Mayor Stewart: Well somebody else will figure it out.

Jerry Mack: If you look at what other cities are doing, and I am not saying I want to follow other cities or whatever but this is pretty much what they do. Your Allieds, your BFI’s. This is what their cost structure is and it is sure not $15.75 a month.

Robert M. Valentine W2: We’re in it to try and break even. We are not in it to make money.

Jerry Mack: We have to do something to break even.

Ruth Detrow: I have to agree, that we need to do something and it is irresponsible of people to let their cousin out in the country bring their trash in and it happens. I agree with you that something has to be done. I think a bag limit is a good idea.

Jerry Mack: The Mayor just made a good point. He had a holiday, had a family gathering. He had about six bags, maybe eight bags is the limit for the Holiday thing. You probably had a very large gathering. If you had six bags; I don’t know whether you pull your recycling out. That was probably just household garbage, as we would call it.

Robert M. Valentine W2: We’ll see how they charge on your next water bill.

Mayor Stewart: Jerry is going at this in a very systematic approach and I admire going at it in a business manner, which is big business. Quite frankly, he is in a competitive business. It is an enterprise department. In other words they are in it to be self-sustained. I can’t fault Jerry for anything that he is doing. I think he is bringing the issues before this body. You guys are going to get the calls. I will get a few but you are going to get them too. I think we need to think this thing through and be prudent with what decisions we make. Honest to goodness, I think January 1 is a good time to do it but I don’t know if we can pull it off or not.

Robert M. Valentine W2: The only thing is; I don’t have a problem with anything and I know Glen wants to stick to the curbside recycling but the last time we talked about the cost of the stickers for the yard waste remember? Because originally we got the bags for a buck, then the next year we just got the sticker; now you still have to buy the bag and the sticker is going to be a buck and a half.

Jerry Mack: That is why I included a little bit of a yard waste sheet; if you look on that it shows what our cost is basically without maintenance so it gives you an idea of what. We sold 23 to 25 thousand stickers last year so that is                 23 to 25 thousand dollars. Our cost without maintaining any trucks was $ 28,000. Now if we are looking at once a week pick up and changing this a little bit on the yard waste, I think we can definitely save some money by picking up every other week. Now do our quantities go down? No. But there again, we are going to save personnel wise. We are going to save truck wise, fuel wise and maintenance wise. But we are still going to pick up the same amount of material. We are just going to do it. Half the city one week, half the city the next week and do that all summer long. One place we get into trouble. Holidays are going to be a killer whenever we do it. If your yard waste day falls after a holiday then it is going to skip. You are going to get it the next scheduled day for that.

Mayor Stewart: So you could be a month with bags of grass in your garage?

Jerry Mack: Three weeks. You would have a holiday. The one section would get picked up and then that section would get picked up the following week.

Mayor Stewart: Okay so you wouldn’t stay on the original schedule. You would just go.

Jerry Mack: We would stay on the original schedule but if your holiday falls here, you don’t get picked up. The other section gets picked up the next Monday then you are back on the next Monday. There are two pick up days a month except when it falls after a holiday. We have five Monday holidays. So it will be five times a year that would happen.

Mayor Stewart: Three of those fall in the summer. Memorial Day, 4th of July and Labor Day.

Jerry Mack: And the dates I put in for start and stop; I am trying to make it so we can get spring clean up done and start yard waste. But as we have done this year; if people have bags and believe it not I got calls for tomorrow already again; not a lot but up until this week we had a lot of yard waste we were picking up. I am not opposed to going and picking that yard waste up if they tell me where they are at rather than driving all over the city wasting fuel to find several bags but not enough to do that to put personnel on just to drive around looking for bags and we would still pick that up I have no problem with that. And we do have a drop site. They can drop it off at the building. We have dumpsters out back and they can drop yard waste off out there whenever they want to in the approved bags. We just take the dumpsters and put it in when we haul and it doesn’t take that long. Apparently not very many people know that.

Robert L. Valentine W1: Jerry you probably do this anyway. Would it be wise to have the date to stop and say from that time on, you call and let us know then we will pick it up?

Jerry Mack: This is how it has been done for years. From November 1.

Stephen Stuart: Kind of getting back to the bag limit. Jerry you think there is a need for a bag limit? Glen, you are concerned about a bag limit?

Mayor Stewart: No I am concerned about charging $3.00 dollars a bag if we go over the bag limit. I am not particularly caught up on six bags or eight bags. But I think a $3.00 dollar charge per bag when I can fill a whole hopper for 8 dollars. The dollars and cents don’t add up exactly right.

Stephen Stuart: So you would feel better with a dollar?

Mayor Stewart: A buck a bag and leave it a six bags, and if you have eight bags well I owe you 2 bucks. $3.00 dollars is a lot of money to haul a bag of trash.

Jerry Mack: I guess there again it goes towards trying to get people to recycle.

Robert M. Valentine W2: But you are saying for instance; it happened two years ago my basement flooded.

Jerry Mack: I think there are some special cases like that if a person would give us a call and maybe this is not the right thing to say. I am not opposed to helping people out. I didn’t have a problem at all in special situations of trying to help out on that.

Robert M. Valentine W2: I had probably 15 bags so I would have paid the 8 bucks.

Jerry Mack: Most people with our additional pick-ups. They are just happy as can be that we do it for 8 bucks a hopper. They appreciate it and you know what? That stuff is picked up within no longer than 2 days.   It is happening more and more.   I don’t quite understand it but if somebody moves out, they leave everything they own. The Landlord puts it all on the curb. They are happy for 8 bucks for us to pick it up. Very reasonable.

Robert M. Valentine W2: It costs you what, 60, 80, 90, or 100 bucks to rent a dumpster.

Jerry Mack: Right.    You can put a lot in there. Couches are the only things that would cost you a double on the hopper because some of these couches are really large. That usually is a 16-dollar charge on some of these bigger couches.

Mayor Stewart: If Jerry and I sit down and put the nuts and bolts of this together and let Rick put the legal together so it is in the proper Ordinance format and bring it back and if you want to leave it at 3 bucks and six bags, so be it. I bring up some of the thoughts that I share.   What would you go on a bag cost then?   Jerry lets put this together and give it to Rick and let him develop the appropriate language for us.

Robert L. Valentine W1: We have the water bill at the end of this month. If we get this through, is there something we can send out to the people?

Mayor Stewart: When is the water bill stuffing, Mike when does that start?

Mike Hunter: At the end of the month.

Mayor Stewart: Well, what we really need to let people know is what the pick up schedule is going to be.

Jerry Mack: That is where we are going to be in a difficult situation. We are getting that put together now. I don’t know how quick I can get these printed. It is a double-sided sheet. We have a lot of new streets that are being put in. That will be the only thing that might slow us down.

Mayor Stewart:   I am not hung up on January 1st. When we do it, we want it done right.

Robert M. Valentine W2: Why don’t we wait until after January 1st and the Holidays will be over.

Stephen Stuart: And the reason for deferring on the Yard Waste is what?

Mayor Stewart: There is more in there; the cost per sticker. I just felt that we need to get those first two done quickly. But if we can include the Yard Waste and the Spring Clean up and large pick-ups for Spring Clean Up and all of the, so be it.

Jerry Mack: The Spring Clean Up follows identical to what I have done in the past except for the way we are stretching it out. We are going to have to use some part time help to get some of these things done. We used to do it in five to six weeks. This takes about ten weeks but allows using one extra truck; we will put a man on with some temps on one extra truck. He will be dedicated to that for ten weeks. When the other ones get done with their routes, they will shift over and help get this stuff picked up. I am looking at a two-week period. We used to do it in one week with two trucks and six men. Now we are going to do it; the majority of it one truck and three men. I am giving them an additional week to get that picked up. Our cost is not going to change a whole lot, but I don’t know how it is going to work. I think we can get it done. I am pretty sure we can.    We definitely want to get it done before the first holiday. It is kind of tough to get it done before Easter, but we try and get it done before the first holiday. That also, we are going to have people say, “I was in Florida!” We will rotate that yearly, so everybody gets a chance to get their stuff out earlier in the year. We will rotate that and we did that in the past also. The $1.50 on yard waste, it wasn’t covering what we were doing. If we go to this system, the way I am talking, we will be okay. At $1.00 a bag. We shouldn’t have any problem.

Robert L. Valentine W1:   What I was thinking might happen is that if you raise it to $1.50, people have till January 1st to run down there and buy all of those things for $1.00.

Jerry Mack: If council will let me do it every two weeks, half of the city, we will be all right; we will be fine that way. We would split it. I have a squiggly line here, my yellow isn’t real great, this is the halves on this map. This way is sometimes a little more difficult. That is why we have decided to go east and west. My scribbling all over it will have a trash schedule, recycling schedule and then I also call them sections. The reason I put section on there, that will help people identify with the spring clean up issue. We are doing section one. It will help identify that way what we are doing for spring clean up.

Mayor Glen Stewart: Would you guys like to have, when Jerry gets that where he wants it, you want a small scale of that?

Robert M. Valentine W2: That would be good.

Ruth Detrow: Yes.

Robert L. Valentine W1: One other thing I am thinking about is that I don’t know if you want a Work Session; Maybe to go through this again. Is it possible you could get it out to us as quick as possible in the next couple of weeks, or am I asking for too much here?

Mayor Stewart: We will work on it Bob.

Paul Wertz: You are saying, leave the Yard Waste at $1.00 instead of $1.50.

Jerry Mack: Yes if council will go along with what I have here and it is really, when we get down to the personnel we need, with the personnel that will be used for this. It is about the only way I can handle it. We are still going to have to use temps during the year. There is no doubt we are going to have to use some temporary help to get some of these situations done.

Mayor Stewart: We will put together some thing that we can get to Rick and get into proper format. If we choose to, we will not send you the Ordinance; we will send you the content that we want to have Rick write into an Ordinance.

Robert M. Valentine W2: You are still working on the leaves?

Jerry Mack: Salt in the morning and leaves in the afternoon.

New Business:   None.

Mayors Comments:

I am going to ask that we adjourn to an Executive Session to consider Compensation of Public Employees.

John Chorpening: On the trash, is it possible to sticker the trash bags and drop the charge from the water bills and that would actually be an incentive for recycling. If everybody had to pay per bag that they were putting out. The person who set out 30 bags would then have to pay for 30 bags. You set out 2 bags and pay for 2 bags. Give them enough time to be able to buy the stickers, say 6 months down the line.

Paul Wertz: The trouble with that though would be a nightmare to collect the money.

Mayor Stewart: Do it just like we do the yard waste. Pre-buy them. Pre-paid. Go out and buy your bags and pre-pay it. If you put 30 bags out. I don’t want to go there just yet. It is an idea. I haven’t thought of anything like that to tell you the truth.

Paul Wertz: Something to look into.

Jerry Mack: Some of the areas do have additional pick-ups. You buy stickers for additional pick-ups.

Mayor Stewart: Norwalk does that.

Comments of questions from the Audience: Items that are not included on the Agenda

Motion to move to Executive Session by Paul Wertz, moved by Robert M. Valentine W2 to consider compensation of Public Employees; no action will be taken when we come back in., seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert L. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Executive Session at 8.05 p.m.

Move to reconvene back to Regular Session by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Ruth Detrow
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow.

Move to adjourn Regular Session by Robert M. Valentine W2, seconded by Robert L. Valentine W1.
   Ayes: Paul Wertz, Stephen Stuart, Robert L. Valentine W1, Robert M. Valentine W2, Ruth Detrow

ADJOURNMENT AT 9:25 p.m.

                                       Submitted by
                                       Valarie Bishoff
                                       Clerk of Council